RADIOMarch 29, 2024

How a Baptist Pastor Went from Shroud of Turin SKEPTIC to DEFENDER

Is there enough evidence to prove that the Shroud of Turin is real? Prestonwood Baptist Church apologetics pastor Jeremiah Johnston used to be a skeptic. But once he did a deep dive into the history of the Shroud, he became a “total defender” of the Shroud’s authenticity. This Easter Week, Pastor Johnston joins the Glenn Beck Program to lay it all out from a scientific perspective. Plus, he explains why you don’t need to be Catholic to believe the Shroud is truly the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Yesterday, we had Jeremiah J. Johnston on. He was the author of a book, called Body of Proof. He has his doctorate. But so do I.

I know I'm a doctor of humanities. And I didn't even study for the test. But he's also the president of Christian thinker society, Prestonwood Baptist Church, and we were talking yesterday about the Shroud of Turin, which surprised me. Because a lot of people, especially in the south Baptist, and even evangelicals. They don't necessarily hold to the traditions of the Catholic Church. And I -- I think we all have unbelievable pieces of the puzzle, and one of those pieces, I think as -- is the Shroud of Turin. And I didn't know what to think about it, until a few years ago. He's writing a whole book on the Shroud of Turin. So we thought we would bring him back today. This is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ, that's what it's purported to be. The burial cloth. And it is a -- a reverse negative. It is almost like when his body came back to life. This is the way I view it.

When his body came back to life. It's like the burial cloth was like a film. And it printed in a burst of light. It printed the negative of his body in that cloth.

And nobody really knows how it was made, if it was fake. Jeremiah, welcome to the program.

JEREMIAH: Glenn, it's great to be back with you. And I'm sure we have people that right now, that are like Thomas Didymus. Remember Thomas the twin, that he said in John 20:25, hey, look, you can say Jesus is God. Good for you. But unless I see his nail-scarred hands. Unless I can put my hand in his side, I won't believe. Well, guess what we're going to do on the Glenn Beck Program? You'll actually be able to see the nail-pierced hand of Jesus, thanks be to the Shroud of Turin.

GLENN: Okay. Explain the history of the Shroud of Turin. Of where it came from. Of when we think it first appeared.

JEREMIAH: Absolutely. And let's make sure we situate this. Because you bring up a really important point. There's been a pejorative vibe towards the shroud, by anyone who isn't Catholic. I want to remind our audience, the Catholic Church, they're the largest landowners on church. Did you know that? They actually have a lot of land. They have a lot of assets and property. And guess what, it turns out they have some excellent artifacts for the Christian faith. C.S. Lewis. We've all heard of C.S. Lewis. I love Lewis. I lived in Oxford for three years. Glenn, I didn't know it until this year. Jack Graham, my pastor and I, went to Oxford on an inspirational summer trip, and then we went and did some golfing at St. Andrews. We literally went to Lewis' home, and I look up on Lewis' home. I don't know if you can see this, but for the benefit of our audience, I'm holding it right up to my face. I look up, C.S. Lewis kept a picture of the Shroud of Turin in his bedroom, next to his bed, where he slept. And the reason he did that, Lewis said, I needed a reminder every morning and every evening, that my God has a face. And so we're not talking about something weird or frisure, even C.S. Lewis took it seriously.

GLENN: So when did it first appear on the scene?

JEREMIAH: This is what's remarkable out of the Shroud of Turin, goes back far beyond the radio carbon dating. And as you point -- because some people hear shroud, they're like, what is that? As you pointed out, this is a burial garment for Jesus. All four gospels say that Joseph of Arimathea, and Nicodemus, two members of the Sanhedrin. Remember, if the Sanhedrin condemned a criminal to death, it was according to the Mishna. The Sanhedrin had to bury the condemned criminal. What do we see in the juridical procedure of Jesus?

Two members. Joseph of Arimathaea, and Nicodemus. They take Jesus, and they wrap his body in a burial garment. And they bury him in Joseph of Arimathaea's tomb.

GLENN: And it's not like when you think of wrapping a body. You think of like a mummy. But this is actually like a very long tablecloth, very, very long.

JEREMIAH: Right.

GLENN: And it's -- they laid it down, then put the body in. And then where the head is, they took and they pulled the rest of the fabric down to his feet. So it's a double image of the back, then a space, then the front of this body.

JEREMIAH: Exactly. Exactly. And that is not unusual. If you were in the Jewish burial traditions, you would do that. You might say, oh, Glenn. Jeremiah. There's no way that a burial shroud could last for 2,000 years. Give me a break. Well, actually, when you're a student of history, you can see, we even have a Tarkan dress linen shirt, and guess what, Glenn. It's 3,000, 200 years older than the Shroud of Turin. It's 5,000 years old.

So given the right set of circumstances, linen will last forever. So you're exactly right. It's 14 feet long. It's about 4 feet wide. Longer than our studio table here at Mercury Studios. And what's fascinating is, something occurred. And I have the top five reasons why I went from skeptic. Glenn, I was a total skeptic, until I went and wrote Body of Proof.

Did the video series for the Bible study, Body of Proof in Jerusalem. Went to the shroud exhibit, had private access.

Exhibited all -- looked at all the artifacts. And then I came out with top five reasons, that utterly took me from skeptic to total defender now of the shroud.

GLENN: Okay. So let's share those.

JEREMIAH: Number five. Let's do a countdown. You like countdowns, Glenn?

GLENN: Sure.

JEREMIAH: The Shroud of Turin is the most studied artifact of the archeological world, there's not a close second. And the second thing I want to say, is it's almost the most lied about artifact in the archaeologically world.

GLENN: Okay. Wait. Let's start with the first one. Which is the most studied. How do you know that, and what's been done with it?

JEREMIAH: Because I've read all the peer-reviewed journals that you don't have to, Glenn.

GLENN: Go ahead.

JEREMIAH: There's been an amazing evidential history of the Shroud of Turin. In 1978, the Sturkin (phonetic), this is the Shroud of Turin research project team. Went to Italy. They thought it would be a free trip to Italy. They were all having drinks in the lobby of the hotel. Giggling that the on the Catholic Church's dime, they would have a free trip to Italy. They only had two days to prove that it was a hoax. And guess what, nobody was giggling two days later. They had approximately a hundred twenty hours to examine this very ancient shroud, which has a very unique history.

I mean, Hitler tried to steal it. They had to save it from Hitler's hands during World War II. The history of the shroud is just remarkable. So these were not Bible scholars. These were not -- as far as I know, they were outside of the priests, that were kind of security overlooking the shroud, while it was being looked at.

These were all weapons scientists. Barry Schwartz, who you interview, that I encourage everybody to go back and watch the Glenn Beck interview with Barry Schwartz. He was a nominal Jew. His only bias was, he thought it was a hoax and a joke when he went there. And now he's utterly convinced, that it's not only not a hoax. Because as we'll talk about in a minute, you cannot -- if it's a hoax, it's never been repeated. He's convinced that it's an authentic burial shroud of Jesus, so it's the most studied cross-disciplinary practice in the world.

GLENN: And the -- in 19 -- the 1970s, when Barry was part of this. As you said, they all went in as skeptics.

And I believe it came out, at the time, that it was possible. But radio carbon data was saying, no. It's like a thousand years later. Or something.

But something was wrong. And I don't remember what it was. Maybe you do.

Barry said, it was only until later, when technology changed.

JEREMIAH: Right. Right.

GLENN: That they realized, oh, my gosh, this is that old.

JEREMIAH: Yeah. And 1978, you have the original research project. And they come out. What they say, it's not a hoax. There's no pigment. There's no ink. There's no dye. The shroud has survived three fires. It's been doused in water twice. If there was dye, if there was paint, it would have bled out. It would have smeared. Essentially, they came out and said, it's not a hoax. We don't know what it is. Ten years later, 1988. This is point number three in the countdown, which we'll get to. The 1988 carbon dating was done. So about ten years after that original research project.

GLENN: Okay. All right.

JEREMIAH: And this is when all the headlines came out, Glenn, that said, this is a total hoax. The carbon 14 dating -- dated it to the late 13th, early 14th century. There's huge problems with that, and we'll discuss that.

GLENN: Okay. So number four.

JEREMIAH: Number four. Science today.

This is what really arrests my attention. Cannot explain how the image is in the cloth.

Now, Glenn, you've seen the shroud.

I mean, it's stunning.

The energy it would have taken.

GLENN: I never actually -- I never actually have seen it in person.

I was going to go to Turin. I wanted to go this summer to Turin, just to see it. Because talking to Barry Schwartz has totally changed my mind on it. You can't see it. Because it's protected.

JEREMIAH: It's under a vault. They bring it out every few years. It's that same John the Baptist Cathedral in the Piedmont District of Northern Italy, as you say in Turin, Italy. By the way, if you go to Jerusalem, there's an incredible Shroud exhibit there that shows every aspect of the Shroud.

And I'm talking not just scientists in general. Rocket scientists. Republican scientists.
Chemical scientists. Cannot explain how the image is in the Shroud.

If it was a forgery, if it was a hoax, it's never been able to be repeated.

I mean, this is unbelievable. These aren't Bible theologians or commentators saying it. They're scientists saying, we cannot explain how there's an image. And here's the fascinating thing, Glenn. Do you know if you get closer than 8 feet, the image vanishes. You actually have to stand back from it, 8 feet, to be able to see the image.

It's very unique.

WATCH: Pro-Palestine Protesters TAKE OVER College Campuses

Pro-Palestine protesters have taken over college campuses across America, from Columbia University in New York to The George Washington University in DC and Cal Poly Humboldt in California. Over the weekend, the protesters set up autonomous zones in solidarity with Gaza, held Islamic prayer sessions, and chanted about intifada. Glenn and Stu review some of the most insane clips. But one of the craziest ones is out of Canada, where protesters chanted "long live October 7th." And if that wasn't ignorant enough, Glenn also reviews a clip of a drag queen leading children in a chant of "free Palestine."

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

STU: Well, what a weekend it was. What a weekend it was.

The constant protests, I guess are the big story, over the weekend.

And it doesn't seem to be stopping.

Seems to be the only thing that Americans want to do these days. Is protest the right of Israel to exist.

That's apparently controversial now.

It's amazing to see this happen.

We're seeing university after university after university, step up. and decide that the hill they are going to die on is the hill that supports Hamas. This is apparently a popular position in this country. And an incredible moment that we're in right now.

Let's -- let's go to sot one, if we could, on our list. I'm not sure if are these available. Having a little bit of a technical issue. There we go. We're having an Islamic prayer being held.
(music)
I have this album.
(music)
Just bought it on vinyl. Now, these are the quietest of the protests around the country. Most of this really weren't like this. Outside of the White House Correspondents' Dinner. There was more protesting going on. This is...

Missing the visuals here. You have -- so bizarre.

VOICE: Wiped off the face of --

GLENN: So this is someone dressed as an Israeli soldier, and there's a bunch of blindfolded, shirtless people who get hit by blue powder and collapse, which is making a good point.

GLENN: No. I think this is -- this is the really killing the white man. Which is supposed to be the Palestinian. But they're white men. Most of them. Which I think just makes it even more confusing for anybody who was -- who was watching.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: You know, I have to go back to the Islamic prayer. I mean, I don't know about you. I miss it times. Could you play the -- could you go back and play the Islamic prayer for me, please?

If you happen to be watching TheBlaze, I just want to describe the Islamic prayer here.

Everybody is on a prayer rug there at Columbia University.

It's a beautiful, beautiful scene.

And -- yes.

And this guy is very, very popular in the upper east side.

So you have people, you know, on a prayer run. We had to go to the Supreme Court to get the coach to be able to pray by himself on the field, after a football game.

But this is totally cool. And the next thing is, they're including women in the call to prayer. Which is very popular, in the Middle East.

They love it, when a woman gets down and pray right looping side the men. It is -- it's wonderful. It's truly, truly wonderful.

Now, let's go to cut four. This is in Canada. This is in Vancouver. Right. Okay. Can we stop there for just a second.

Stu, can you just explain? The geography of Israel. I know there's the sea, on the west coast of Israel. What's on the east coast of Israel, or the easternmost, furthest east you could go?

STU: That would be a river, Glenn.

GLENN: That would be --

STU: Yeah. So what's interesting about this. That's how you know it's an aspirational call for unity. From the river to the sea. So that Palestine, will just take over everything from Israel. There will be no Jews left.

That's the call for unity. It's aspirational.

GLENN: Unity. Okay. It's an aspirational call for unity. That sounds very specific, that language. Like, that's what they're saying on college campuses.

STU: And Rashida Tlaib, right out of her mouth.

GLENN: Okay. Good.

So an aspirational call for unity. The only thing you could be unified on is get rid of all the Jews. Because that means there is no Israel.
So no two-state solution.

STU: Yeah, that was another slogan.

We don't want no two-state. We want everything. That was the chant that was coming down.

GLENN: Right. Well, but see, they make it clear.

They want everything. And we don't want no -- no one state. So they've got a double negative there.

Which means they want a two-state solution.

And they say, we want everything. And that must include a one state and a two-state solution.

So I think that is very, very clear. Now, can we go on and play what they were saying in Canada. It was cut four.

VOICE: We demand a free Palestine. From the river to the sea.

GLENN: Yeah.

VOICE: And we stand with the Palestinian resistance, and their heroic, and brave action on October 7th.

They said, long live October 7th.

And we say, today, long live October 7th!

VOICE: Long live October 7th.

STU: Oh, my God.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I love it when the Nazis are like, long live the Holocaust. You know.

Hey, long those cool -- really cool showers and oven system that we came up with.

You know, that --

STU: Clunky slogan.

GLENN: It's a clunky slogan. But -- but a true slogan.

STU: But the equivalent of what they're saying. The equivalent of what they're saying on these college campuses. The ones that everybody in the media seem to be supporting.

Long live freaking October 7th. I mean, can you be any more -- I don't know, Glenn. Is this one still borderline? Is this one anti-Semitic, or are we not sure? Is this an aspirational call for unity? I can't quite tell.

GLENN: Well, we know it's brave. We know it's brave. Well, October 7th was a very brave day. It was brave and heroic what they did. Really.

STU: Really?

GLENN: Yeah. Do you think it takes courage to go molest, slaughter, and then burn babies? Sure. Sure, it takes courage to do that. You might get caught and then seen for the monster that you really are.

But in this case, no. They're celebrated. So it's brave and historic.

Now, in California. Cal Poly, cut five.

Does this have audio with it?

STU: We're seeing the video of this. Apparently, no sound to it.

Yet again, graffiti, inside the hallways here. Some words we maybe don't say on the radio.

To recap.

GLENN: Are they grown up words?

STU: They're grown up words. Big girl, big boy words.

This has been just people ruining the facilities, and it's very messy. And there's graffiti everywhere inside the building.

It's wonderful. This is another aspirational call.

GLENN: You remember, kill all the Jews. Kill all the Jews. It helps you remember all of that.

Now, beyond kill all the Jews. There's something new they're calling for. Cut 48, please.

This is in Germany, of all places. The big Palestinian uprising in Germany this weekend. And what are they calling for?

STU: It doesn't sound good. Never sounds good in German.

GLENN: No. That's not in German. That's in Arabic.

Whenever you get someone in German going, (foreign language). No matter what language it is, you know it's trouble. Don't worry, they were just calling for a caliphate. So they're not wanting to bring the Nazis back. They just want a caliphate.

STU: Aspirational.

GLENN: Yeah. Very inspirational. Now, if I could just get the drag queens and the caliphate people, you know. If I could just get them together, one stop shop, I think we would be set.

Here's cut 30.

VOICE: Today what we're going to do is we're going to shout, free Palestine. Can we do that?

VOICE: Free Palestine.

VOICE: Shout.

VOICE: Free Palestine.

GLENN: Oh.

VOICE: You know it, and you really want to show. You're a drag queen and you know it, shout.

VOICE: Free Palestine!

GLENN: See, this is the united message, we can get the kids involved too. Because we have a drag queen. And if you're a drag queen and you know it. Shout free Palestine.

So it's one place, we can get both of those things, where we can all come together.

STU: Hmm. Yeah.

That's an amazing clip. I think -- now, this is just me speculating, Glenn.

Because I'm not a travel agent.

I don't work for a tourism board.

But I do wonder how that particular event will go down, if held in Gaza. Would it be different? Because they are cheering on Palestine. Obviously, there's some affinity there. The drag queen story hour group, reading to, let's say, the Gazan children. How would that work out in Gaza itself?

GLENN: You know, it's funny you should ask that, Stu. You may not be a travel agent. Or work for some sort of tourism.

But you are a thinker. You are a thinker. This has thank you.

GLENN: And that's really what counts.
Here's the good news: They -- the protesters are going to love it! They're going to love it.

What happened in Iraq? Just this weekend? They made it illegal to be on the spectrum. The sexual spectrum at all. You're either a man or a woman. Men have sex with women. Women have sex with men.

Now, that's not all the time. Because, you know, there's a shortage of women over in the Middle East. Sometimes they have to get a little of them going on with the younger men, you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

But we don't talk about that. I didn't say any of that. I don't even know what you're talking about. Say, what?

But so they've outlawed now homosexuality, which is weird, because Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, he said, at one point, I think it was at Columbia University, when asked about them gays. He said, we don't have any gay people in Iran.

And lo and behold, they're going to make that wish come true. So you have that going for you.

Also, by the way, they just killed their third -- where is this story? Their third TikToker. She was -- no. Seriously, she was -- no. She was -- she was -- well, she's dead. She's dead.

She was a very popular influencer, in Iran.

And she's a woman. And she was shown dancing.

But she wasn't just dancing. She was wearing jeans. And they were a little too tight.

Me personally, I don't -- I don't mind, you know, some sort of law, against jeans that are too tight on some people.

You know what I'm saying?

You know, you walk around Walmart, once in a while. And they're like, oh. Those don't work on you, honey.

But I don't want to see you execute it. But she was executed, because they were a little too tight. And too suggestive.

And she was laying in a bed. Well, she was reading her son a good night story.

But she was still in those jeans laying on a bed. So they had to execute her, over the weekend. So the crackdown continues.

And, hey, all you people on campus, with your little rug prayer thing. With the woman right next to you.

You know how popular that's going to be. And all you drag queens, oh. They love you.

They love you. In fact, I am going to set up a personal fund. If you're a drag queen. If you are a gay activist.

And you're out, because you love it. And you show it. Clap your hands!

I am going to go ahead, and having you airfare from wherever I live in the United States. To the Gaza Strip.

Okay? And bring your pamphlets. Bring your pamphlets. Bring your best wigs and your spikey high heels. Bays they are going to love you there.

And when you stop writing us, or calling us, we'll know exactly how much they love you.

Over there. So maybe we could send that as a message to all of your friends over here. What the hell is wrong with you?

STU: Glenn, you were running through those wonderful stories in the Middle East.

And you mentioned Iran and Ahmadinejad, and a bunch of stories that happened in Iraq. And you kind of went back and forth. I don't know if people followed that exactly.

Because it was Iran, who had said there was no gays, years and years ago in Columbia. And both of the stories banning homosexuality and the TikToker being executed, both happen in Iraq.

And what I found fascinating about that is, we should be able to tell the difference. Right?

We were supposedly helping out this country, so that it did not end up like Iran.

GLENN: Stop it. It's only a trillion dollars. It's only a trillion dollars.

You get what you pay for.

You want to go in half-assed like that. You get what you pair pay for.

Now, 2 trillion. 2 trillion.

That just is somebody who mildly hates gays.

No. No. But, yeah. We didn't do the job. So what we did. We empowered the head of the snake.

We made the head of the snake even more powerful.

The head of the snake, over in the Middle East. Is Iran.

And now it's -- now you have Iranian Shias all over in Iraq.

And so they're doing the thing that Shias love. And that's kill people, that disagree with them.

Wow, that's weird. Because wow, that's almost like the left here in America.

Oh, I see what they have in common. They just like silencing people. Throwing them in jail. Or killing them. If they disagree with them. Wow. Too bad we can't get them to agree on the same kind of people.

Or we should get the two of them together. Oh. Because they'll like each other.

A lot. No. No. No.

I think the left, when they get there, they will be like, hi. Everybody.

We brought birthday cakes. And candles. And we will decorate this mosque all up. And they'll love it! In the Shiite world.

STU: These regimes that you're talking about there, too. They're not the ones to fear.

It's Donald Trump.

Trump is the one to fear.

Like, that's the guy. If you have to be really terrified about something coming down the road.

It's definitely not the Islamic extremist regimes we're discussing.

It's, instead, the -- the -- the tyranny of the -- you know, real estate developer from Manhattan.

GLENN: Yeah. You know, he want -- he's a man of tyranny. It's clear. He hates them gays so much.

He was the first president to, you know, open a party openly. And say, hey. I'm going to appoint gay people openly.

I will have the first gay person speak on the podium. I will be the first president that actually runs and say, I don't have a problem with gay people. You know, you got to fear him. But the guy who wants to chop your pee-pee off. And throw you off a building.

You know, that happens to be, coming across our border right now. Don't fear him.

There's nothing to fear there. Nothing to worry about.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Is the Global Cabal a Conspiracy Theory? | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 218

Are we witnessing the controlled demolition of America? In this episode of "The Glenn Beck Podcast," award-winning journalist Alex Newman tells Glenn that the globalist types at the World Economic Forum and the Council on Foreign Relations may be “nice to have a coffee with,” but the one-world government they are promoting won’t be the utopia they think it will be. This isn't the "Global Cabal" conspiracy theory that's all over the internet, but the reality is just as terrifying. Alex makes the case that the U.N. and Bill Gates are building “a giant digital gulag for humanity” to assert digital control from the top down using tools like CBDCs and digital IDs to not only monitor what you do but manipulate it. Sweden already has thousands of people “with microchips in their hands.” “I’m not saying this is the mark of the beast,” Glenn says. “But ...” From FISA and open borders to the war on food and the booby trap of Christian nationalism, Glenn and Alex agree that the solution to our problems is simple: The federal government needs to follow the Constitution, and Americans have to become “a moral and religious people” again.

The ONE Way to STOP the Left from ERASING America

Our memory is the key to who we are. If we lose our memory, we forget our purpose and who we are meant to be. The same is true for societies, Glenn says. Ever wonder why the Left is so set on destroying American history, rewriting our traditions, and convincing us we're not who we thought we were? Because if we throw the TRUE America down the memory hole, we leave ourselves open to being reprogrammed with lies. But Glenn has a solution: Tell your stories so we don't forget.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Memory is really kind of important.

It's more than a record. It's more than the sum total of our experiences.

The chronicle of our lives. More than a tally of good and bad lessons learned. Although, it is those things as well. But fundamentally, our memory is the key to who we are.

Entities, which lose their memory, people, groups, nations. Lose not just the mere knowledge of their past. Of who they were. Or have been.

But they also lose the knowledge of themselves, the knowledge of their purpose. Of who they are. Who they're meant to be.

They lose the present and the future. Remember when you were a kid. It seemed like everyone on TV, surfed from amnesia at some point?

I thought amnesia would play a big role in life. No. It doesn't. It's like Gilligan's Island and the quicksand. I've never run into quicksand ever before. And I've never had amnesia. Although, some days I would like to have amnesia. But we are memory holing things.

What is the memory hole?

The memory hole was in the -- I think it was the ministry of love.

Where you were taught to hate. And the ministry of truth. Where you were taught, what lies were. And you were forced to do it in 1984.

Memory hole was a -- a door in every room, where people were being taught the truth. And you would open up the little -- the little door. And take whatever the truth was. All of the photos, the documents. And you would throw them in the memory hole. And at the bottom of the memory hole was a fiery furnace. And so it would burn up. All the record. And so it was in the memory hole.

You don't retrieve that in the memory hole. It's gone!

When you lose the knowledge of yourself. The not only of your purpose. What you were meant to be.

You are truly lost. Think of any movie or series that starts with the hero. Waking up to find their memory gone. Their fundamental character traits may remain, but they're unmoored.

Not only unable to recognize family from strangers, but without knowledge of who they are and what that means and how they should act next. All of a sudden, somebody throws a blow, and they are like.

And they're able to just take on anybody.

Whoa!

What kind of man am I?

Am I a killer. They don't know. It leaves people open to manipulation. To being reprogrammed with lies. By whatever bad actor wants to use them for their own purposes. Have you seen Argylle yet? It's exactly what I'm talking about. This is also true for societies. If we forget our stories, if we stop telling them, or allow others to edit them, to suit their purposes, we lose them.

Forget both who we are and who we can and should be. And we leave ourselves open to anyone, with an alternate story to tell.

This is what's happened to religion, Christianity. We've stopped reading the Bible. And so now we're listening to scientists and atheists. And people who say, live for today, man.

What's wrong?

What's wrong with that?, I mean, okay.

O.J. Simpson killed the ice cream man. What's the problem?

He was living life on his terms. There is a problem.

We forget who we are. Who we serve.

And we leave ourselves open.

Now, this is the open intent of the 1619 Project.

And Howard Zinn, it's the logic behind the reimagining policies. Behind the words of Michelle Obama.

VOICE: Barack knows we will have to make sacrifices. We are going to have to change our conversation. We will have to change our traditions, our history. We will have to move into a different place, as a nation to provide the kind of future that we all want.

GLENN: This the trait of every post modern, post Western, post Zionist, post monotheistic, radical atheist thinker, Marxist, or leader.

Just forget the stories of our founding and our purpose. Remember who you are! Simba.

Remember who you are. Wow. That seems kind of important.

That Simba remembers his roots. Why is it not so important for us?

These stories that tell us why we're here, and what we're here to do. We have new stories for you. Stories that will tell us, we're all born in sin. That we're all irredeemably evil.

That we should be torn down forever. Because then we can go ahead and do so. It's always the same. First, the old memories are torn apart. The old stories. They have to be denied.

Delegitimized, erased. And then the new more suitable, enlightened ones, can replace them.

Some including maybe many on the left. Truly believe the old stories are garbage.

But they haven't done their homework.

They truly believe the new stories are true. But they often openly believe that they believe this, all while denying the foundation of the old stories.

Still, they can enjoy the fruits of what's built on that foundation. The material. And moral benefits, that they take for granted. And are currently destroying.

Because it's all they've ever known.

But cut flowers are not life. What happens? You cut a flower, and they fade, wilt, and die.

They're a silent memory of what was, and what could have been. To misquote Patrick Rothfuss.

All around them hangs the cut flowers, silence of a beauty, of a culture, waiting to die.
They don't produce any seeds. There's no next generation of flowers. When they fade, only rot will remain. What was will be no more.

We are cutting the flowers of our future. The ultimate responsibility. And possibly the solution is found with us.

This only happens if we allow someone to cut us from the root. We must tell our stories. We must tell the truth. We must tell the stories of our own lies. Of our families. Do you know why our families are so broken?

Because we don't know where we came from. And I don't mean as a people. I mean as rid.

We don't know the stories of how we got here. We're all immigrants.

That's what everybody says. We're all immigrants.

But how many of us know, who brought the family here?

Why they brought the family here? What it costs them!

We should do this on every available occasion. Family meals. Trips. Dates. Nights out with friends. Honestly, because of everybody having a phone, we're losing them at a faster rate now.

I remember, sitting at the table. Having to sit at the table. While everybody was talking. And all the holidays. And everything else.

And you would look at your sister or brother, and say be like, if I have hear this one more time.

You would hear the same stories over and over again.

Yes! And that's why you know them. Are they happening in your family?

Quintessentially, that's what holidays and rituals are for. Christmas displays and Hanukkahs.
Menorahs. If it's done right, they tell a story. If in the telling, the story grows in some ways. New depth. New focus. More profound meaning.

All the better. If it accumulates anecdotes, commentary, interpretations. It becomes richer.

Turns more and more from an account of something that happened, into a story. Something rich with meaning and lessons. As well as deeds and facts.

Our holidays, Fourth of July, what is it?

We don't even call it Independence Day. We call it Fourth of July.

It's about what? Barbecues?

Maybe fireworks. Maybe sunburn.

Those are important. But how many of us are telling the story?

I know it's awkward and weird at first.

This is the week of Passover.

This is what Passover is all about. The seder night is exactly what we need to be doing.

The entire purpose of that, is to tell the story.

To discuss it. So it and its lessons can be carried on, alive for another generation. And it's been working for Jews for about 3,000 years.

So as Christmas and Easter has kind of done, with Christians. But that's going away.

Fourth of July is going away. Everything in our society is pushing our kids away from the stories. Which means, away from the truth. Of who they are. Where they came from.

Why we're here. As a people.

Well, I'm here because I -- you know. I'm going to be famous on TikTok.

Oh. That's why you were born?

Okay.

Perhaps more effort on the story telling, rather than the grilling could help us with some of the holidays like Independence Day.

And with other stories, we dare not forget. Memory requires a conscience effort. A choice. A ritual.

It requires that a story be told over and over again.

Do you notice that there is a story being told now to Americans, about Americans, to the world.
And it's being told over and over and over again. And look how quickly, because we have a void in our own homes.

Look how quickly everything is being lost.

The first thing we have to do is know the truth. And then stand up for the truth. Stand up to say, no!

You have no right to memory hole an event.

Is Speaker Mike Johnson REALLY a Conservative?

To many, Rep. Mike Johnson came out of nowhere to become House Speaker. But back in 2018, the Daily Beast published an article titled "Meet the Double Agent Who Now Controls House Conservatives," which alleges that Johnson was a "mole" for the House Freedom Caucus to infiltrate the larger Republican congressional groups. Well, things look a little different now that Johnson is in power — he has seemingly abandoned his more conservative leanings to toe the line of the Republican leadership on things like the budget and Ukraine aid. So, is there any truth to the rumors that Johnson is a master of infiltration? Why has he seemed to cave under pressure? Blaze Media Senior Politics Editor Christopher Bedford joins Glenn to weigh in.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So two years ago, I had this guy on. Christopher Bedford. And he was -- he was writing for the Federalist at the time.

And he said he had written a piece, I think it was two years after the lockdowns. The West troubles aren't ending. They're just beginning.

And I thought, he had some real foresight. And, boy, was he right about that. Christopher Bedford now is a senior editor for politics. Washington correspondent for the Blaze media. He has written for the American mind, the Washington Examiner, National Review. The New York Post.

He was the editor-of-chief for the Daily Caller News Foundation. And we're thrilled to have him at TheBlaze.com.

So -- so help me out on this, Chris.

Because I -- for the life of me, I cannot get my head around speaker Johnson being a secret spy. Do you buy this?

CHRISTOPHER: Not completely. No. First of all, it's great to be on the pirate ship, especially stormy waters. I think it's a great crew to be sailing with.

GLENN: Thank you.

CHRISTOPHER: Here in DC. An article that caught my eye was the 2018 Daily Beast piece, after -- after Johnson became the head of the Republican study committee. Which was founded as a conservative committee that was taken over by Republican leadership under Boehner, and kind of became a hangout spot for Republicans. That's what kind of started the Freedom Caucus.

Now, you saw Johnson had been hanging out with the Freedom Caucus. He's been going to their meetings. He's not been paying dues, which is a big faux pas. It's hard to collect those dues. But they go to pay the few shared staff that the Freedom Caucus has. He's not been -- he's been going to those meetings. So when he became the new chairman of the Republican Study Committee, a lot of his colleagues, Republican, more liberal colleagues said, well, this guy is a double agent. He just sneaked on here. He's pretending not to be part of the Freedom Caucus, the conservative group. But really it's a conservative takeover. And I look at that, and I looked at how since he's become speaker. Someone I had a lot of hope for.

You had a lot of hope for.

I was excited. Wow, this is the first social conservative and Republican leadership in decades. Right?

That cares about this stuff. We might have a fighting chance here, and it's been very disappointing.

GLENN: That might be an understatement.

CHRISTOPHER: You know, the way he seems to negotiate. Whether it's government funding, impeachment, FISA, now Ukraine. Step one is a major decision comes along his way, and he goes back and forth. Step two, he's not sure what to do. He delays it as long as he possibly can. Then he kind of -- tweaks what was originally offered. He pretends it was a win. And he asks Democrats to bail him out.

That seems to be what's going on here. So when you look back at this Daily Beast piece.

When you look at the people who have known him, have known him to be a good man. Which, by all accounts, he is. In his personal life.

You have to what -- what could be driving him?

And it seems to be a classic case of Washington, DC. Extreme ambition.

And an ability to deceive himself, which is not too uncommon. You think a lot of the folks here in Washington are real hypocrites.

Or real bad men. Who claim to be the Lord's work. When, in fact, they're doing their own.

But a surprising amount of them have really convinced themselves, that they are on the good side.
They are on the really creepy quote, the right side of history.

That they are -- they are the good guys, who will come and save the day. And this is why the Lord put them there.

And it really feeds into an incredible ego. An incredible amount of ambition.

And also, just the sad reality. That a lot of these folks are pretty weak. As leaders and people. They are capable, like many of us are, of standing at the back of the crowd. And saying, I agree. This is bad.

Or being a backbencher who said, I am not sending any more money to that bloodbath. I'm going to -- I don't care what the defense industry puts on me.

But I will not let women be drafted. It's easy to say that, when you're not the leader.

But when you're in the center and you take all those arrows and all those meetings from the Intel community, and it's all on you. You have to answer to that.

Well, that's when you find out, who is really a leader, and who is just ambitious.

GLENN: You know, there is -- in your article for Blaze, you've talked to a lot of his colleagues.

And one of his senior staffers that worked with him in 2018 said, the speaker is someone who can forgive himself for lying, because he thinks it's for a higher purpose.

He has an exceptional capacity for self-justification.

That's not good.

CHRISTOPHER: No, it's not good. And it's something I found repeated over and over again, about Johnson. You know, when he ran for Speaker, it's kind of a dark horse, surprise candidate. A lot of his colleagues, Republican colleagues, and even ones who were more conservative were willing to say, you know, I know him personally. He's a man of God.

And, therefore, I trust him. But they didn't want to look at the records.

They didn't want to look at, well, what happens, if leadership puts a little bit of pressure on him. How does his vote change?

Will he actually -- his personal or religious beliefs. His commitments. How do those actually shine, as a statesman. Someone willing to take the arrows. And they don't. The votes don't back him up.

He looked at this, as what I've been told by his colleagues. He's been put in this position.

He's been chosen for this.

And if he needs to lie. If he needs to deceive. And he needs to twist arms to further it.

Then he's on the right side.

Again, I've heard him saying, since the right side of history. The other people are on the wrong side of history.

Ask that his actions can therefore be justified.

We see this all the time.

You see it in levels like this. With politics.

You see it, of course, a lot in 2016.

With a lot of the left saying, people support Donald Trump, are basically the Nazis.

Well, once you say that, you're on the side of God. And they're on the side of Hitler.

Then you can justify a lot of actions, that I think a moral person cannot otherwise justify.

GLENN: So what do you think is coming for him?

For the rest of us?

Are we just -- are we just stuck with a guy who is pathetic and weak now?

Because the Democrats would absolutely vote to keep him in.

CHRISTOPHER: You know, I'm curious about that. Everyone is on recess right now, and things have quieted down. But the question is: With everything that is coming down next, how will he be able to continue to govern here? Right now, he's essentially, even though he's a Speaker of the House, and supposedly the head of the Republican coalition, he's really governing, as a kind of Prime Minister. A center of left coalition. The union party. Which has already kind of governed DC. Now it's really being open about it.

Where he has half of Republicans on his side. And about two-thirds of Democrats on his side.

So how is he actually going to be able to pass anything with that coalition?

The Democrats will protect him. The Republicans, a lot of them will never come back to him. What's he actually going to be able to do in the next couple of weeks?

I kind of wonder if he's a lame duck speaker. Because he has these folks. But they accomplished their 95 billion. Then, again, there's also already -- there's already leaked rumors, that they're planning the next big handout to the Ukraine War.

That they're planning to come in September. And I suspect, that he'll still be Speaker through September.

But what will happen in November, is either Republicans will lose their slim majority, in which case he won't be Speaker, or they'll win it.

And then he will have to look around. And find out, amongst those liberal Republicans, who are his allies? Who is actually going to put him up for speaker?

And what are the alternatives?

Right now, he's kind of running against Noah.

He could be saying that, but it will be difficult.

GLENN: You being in Washington. Hanging out or around these people all the time. Watching them. Listening to them.

What do you think they think is coming, in November?

CHRISTOPHER: I think people are -- Republicans are cautiously optimistic, for a Donald Trump victory.

But, of course, there are huge amounts of shenanigans, that are already unfolding. There's worries about what will be the new COVID. What will be the new moral panic, that causes the voting can't be done squarely.

And in full view of the public. The Republican national committee, has been trying to mix up its plan for how to -- whether it will be early voting. Or where its lawyers are going to be.

We know it's going to be, I think chaos. Either Donald Trump actually wins and left-wing takes to the streets, like they did in 2016.

Burning cars. Or attacking people. Or Donald Trump loses. And either way, large parts of this country will not be satisfied with the election results. The attention that has existed in 2016 has not gotten any less.

GLENN: How do the Democrats feel? Confident? Worried?

CHRISTOPHER: No. No.

They were significantly more worried before Joe Biden's State of the Union. You saw that in the New York Times, Washington Post, MSNBC, people openly wishing that they had a different candidate. Just like you saw in 2020, people wishing it was Cuomo instead of Joe Biden. And we'll see a lot actually this weekend with the White House Correspondents' Dinner, where everyone will be paying attention to Joe Biden's remarks. Are they clear? Are they concise? Is he funny, like he can be, when he's on? Like he was at some points in the State of the Union? But there is a real fear amongst Democrats, that Donald Trump is coming back. That the constant cycle of drama that they surrounded his entire four years with, hasn't stuck with the American people because so much of it was fake.

So much of it was impossible to remember, because they were fake scandals. Democrats in town are not confident, that they will get the White House. But they are feeling fairly confident about Congress.

GLENN: We're talking to Christopher Bedford. He's TheBlaze senior media political editor. And the Blaze media Washington correspondent.

When do they come back into session?

CHRISTOPHER: This week. Short vacation. And the Senate was even cut down a little shorter.

Because they had to stick around for the American people. Being sarcastic on that.
(laughter)

GLENN: Real quick. Any just on the Trump trial this week.

Biden said -- DOJ said actually, that Trump is the first president to face criminal prosecution, because predecessors, other presidents just didn't commit any crimes.

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah. I remember when Barack Obama left office. Washington Post said, it was a scandal-free administration. So I think there were some voter agents who could disagree with that. The Trump trial is going to be interesting.

It's New York. It's tough. The judge is obviously against them.

But the prosecution has embarrassed themselves so far. The case is so weak. And you kind of forget that, in the hubbub of the news.

That it's reliant on a bunch of liars. The term of misdemeanor, that is outside the statute of limitations, into a felony. Because of another misdemeanor, that can barely be cited. And it took the prosecution two days to come up with that argument.

And at the same time, the Supreme Court seemed like it's going to crack down. And at least limit, what the president is able to do, with his authority.

Because that will help push some of the other trials back, until after the election if that happens.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because he's not out campaigning. He is not able to leave New York. He's kind of stuck. He wasn't able to weigh in the last of the hill fights. They haven't put him in a prison cell. They have somewhat put him in a room. That's something you will see. And you will probably see some jokes about it. That this big fancy dinner they're having this weekend. They will be laughing at us, about how they still managed to stop, probably the greatest campaigner in modern history, from being able to campaign.

GLENN: So do you think that hurts him? Because the people who will vote for him, will vote for him, anyway.

And the ones who are -- the ones who really, they vote for him. But they really don't like his tweets. And his personality, and everything else.

By keeping him off the road. And yet, still, in the public eye, you keep the folks on Joe Biden. And is there any case to be made, that's good? For Donald Trump.

CHRISTOPHER: So far, it actually hasn't hurt him. To your point. And the folks in the suburbs, who maybe voted for Trump in 2016, and voted for Biden in 2020. To your point, they will not be swayed by a rally. They will not be swayed by the kind of puff corn and rah-rah that goes on at those fun events. And -- but they are being swayed a little bit by the incredible unfairness.

The question is whether or not they will actually be able to get felony charges on him. Because that's the kind of thing that does spook those easily frightened voters.

GLENN: Yeah. All right. Thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it, Chris. Thank you.

CHRISTOPHER: It's great to be back.

GLENN: You bet.